We have been approached to do a Limited Edition "Kre-Anabolyn DP" for a distributor where the ActivECDY would be more than double what it is now (already an industry potency/legitimacy standard bearer)...
We are leaning against it as the potency is already more than sufficient per dosage given all the valid research, but we do want to gauge public interest and comments on a wider scale.
Pricing on this product would be over $100 per bottle, keep in mind, and nothing on the market currently has more or more potent certified RCE than Kre-Anabolyn.
Thanks.
Would you buy $100 Ecdysterone?
I voted yes but moreso from a novelty perspective. Let me explain...
RCE studies often quote 5mg/kg as an effective dose. These studies though, were done on rats. To convert rat to human dosages you need to divide by 6.2
EXAMPLE
200lbs/2.2 = 90.90kg
90.90kg x 5mg = 454.5mg
454.5/6.2 = Human dose of 73.30 mg/day
Now the real question is, will consuming MORE than this increase results? It may, and there is some evidence in the literature that points to this dose/response type curve.
It would be an interesting experiment. I have a feeling though, that 2-3 lower doses around 40-50mg each would be more efficient and result in greater cumulative nitrogen retention.
I am doing some very interesting glucometer testing that may well have some profound implications as to the next gen ecdy formulas
RCE studies often quote 5mg/kg as an effective dose. These studies though, were done on rats. To convert rat to human dosages you need to divide by 6.2
EXAMPLE
200lbs/2.2 = 90.90kg
90.90kg x 5mg = 454.5mg
454.5/6.2 = Human dose of 73.30 mg/day
Now the real question is, will consuming MORE than this increase results? It may, and there is some evidence in the literature that points to this dose/response type curve.
It would be an interesting experiment. I have a feeling though, that 2-3 lower doses around 40-50mg each would be more efficient and result in greater cumulative nitrogen retention.
I am doing some very interesting glucometer testing that may well have some profound implications as to the next gen ecdy formulas
Very interesting.
I did not vote because I have not yet used the KA product. I have some and plan to use it within a few weeks. Is there anything I can/should do to improve uptake or its bioavailability
My viewpoint: When the body consumes in excess it tends to expel or eliminate the extra.
EX1 - drink too much alcohol and your body will respond by making you sick.
EX2 - consume excess creatine and the extra gets removed as waste.
Prove to me that a double dose of ECDY will not make me sick or just get removed and excreted.
I did not vote because I have not yet used the KA product. I have some and plan to use it within a few weeks. Is there anything I can/should do to improve uptake or its bioavailability
My viewpoint: When the body consumes in excess it tends to expel or eliminate the extra.
EX1 - drink too much alcohol and your body will respond by making you sick.
EX2 - consume excess creatine and the extra gets removed as waste.
Prove to me that a double dose of ECDY will not make me sick or just get removed and excreted.
As stated above, I'm with you Scooter.
I understand the mindset to want to push it even further. KA works so well that you can't help but feel compelled to double the dose, because it's safe to do so and - well - double is double!
But, not so fast... We ran quite a few small trials with double dosing the caps and it has been proven conclusively to me that you don't gain much of anything additionally.
Now, extra, separate doses, different story.
Here's more from the website, that also addresses your question, Scooter-
"With Kre-Anabolyn all you need is one capsule before breakfast and dinner. The potent ActivECDY components perfectly compliment and build upon the Patented principles of Kre-Alkalyn Creatine. An additional cap at lunch, and/or especially with post workout MASS PRO protein shakes can be of great benefit during extra heavy training. However, doubling up on the number of capsules taken per dose is not needed.
Smart MUSCLE MASS nutrition TIP: For peak results, take each Kre-Anabolyn dose with a tablespoon of Ultimate Omega, coconut, flax or olive oil to ensure your meal contains optimum EFA's. Research has shown doing this extends the anabolic effects of Kre-Anabolyn capsules for up to two additional hours!"
I understand the mindset to want to push it even further. KA works so well that you can't help but feel compelled to double the dose, because it's safe to do so and - well - double is double!
But, not so fast... We ran quite a few small trials with double dosing the caps and it has been proven conclusively to me that you don't gain much of anything additionally.
Now, extra, separate doses, different story.
Here's more from the website, that also addresses your question, Scooter-
"With Kre-Anabolyn all you need is one capsule before breakfast and dinner. The potent ActivECDY components perfectly compliment and build upon the Patented principles of Kre-Alkalyn Creatine. An additional cap at lunch, and/or especially with post workout MASS PRO protein shakes can be of great benefit during extra heavy training. However, doubling up on the number of capsules taken per dose is not needed.
Smart MUSCLE MASS nutrition TIP: For peak results, take each Kre-Anabolyn dose with a tablespoon of Ultimate Omega, coconut, flax or olive oil to ensure your meal contains optimum EFA's. Research has shown doing this extends the anabolic effects of Kre-Anabolyn capsules for up to two additional hours!"
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dracotdrgn
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:05 pm
- Location: Tacoma, Washington
I going to have to agree with split dosing. I take 3-4 caps a day spread out. I try to get the max benifit by taking it with Omega or Coconut oil as recommended. I vote for as-is, good enough. Yes the money would/could be a factor but I would like more info on testing because I agree with scooter about waste in excess.
No separate thread... just something I'm tinkering with.
For the longest time, I've espoused the fact that I think Ecdy's glycogen storage capacity/effect on carbohydrate metabolism is way undersold. You'll see time and time again the famous study on how Ecdy outperformed Dianabol insofar as protein synthesis. I have no doubt it does that, but it's only one of many modes of action here.
What I'm attempting to do is find the optimal dose/response curve insofar as Ecdy, carbs and blood sugar with and without other supporting nutrients-substrates. Given the different routines, peri-workout drinks, multi-nutrient ecdy formulas out there......no easy task.
Rest assured though, once it's done you guys will hear about it first.
For the longest time, I've espoused the fact that I think Ecdy's glycogen storage capacity/effect on carbohydrate metabolism is way undersold. You'll see time and time again the famous study on how Ecdy outperformed Dianabol insofar as protein synthesis. I have no doubt it does that, but it's only one of many modes of action here.
What I'm attempting to do is find the optimal dose/response curve insofar as Ecdy, carbs and blood sugar with and without other supporting nutrients-substrates. Given the different routines, peri-workout drinks, multi-nutrient ecdy formulas out there......no easy task.
Rest assured though, once it's done you guys will hear about it first.
I suppose if you calculated inflation since 1994 then MAYBE your price point has potential I base this upon the following info I found on this site:
"1994, Zebutol, $79 a bottle Zebutol led to significant muscle gain with 10mg of ecdysterone per tab."
There would still have to be some evidense to support the product as being tested/proven to be worth it.
"1994, Zebutol, $79 a bottle Zebutol led to significant muscle gain with 10mg of ecdysterone per tab."
There would still have to be some evidense to support the product as being tested/proven to be worth it.
I'll come right out and say it- As a legitimate Ecdysterone for it's time, Zeb was by far the best you could find.
But, the stuff was pricey and the quality/results did indeed vary batch to batch. Frankly, it started to vary a lot - to the point we ultimately dropped distribution of the product.
I don't in all honesty think it ever compared to what we have with Kre-Anabolyn today, and I'm in a unique position to make that statement and comparision.
The ultra high standard and consistency of the advanced scientific formulation, provable potency and affordable price tag of Kre-Anabolyn wins the day, hands down.
But, the stuff was pricey and the quality/results did indeed vary batch to batch. Frankly, it started to vary a lot - to the point we ultimately dropped distribution of the product.
I don't in all honesty think it ever compared to what we have with Kre-Anabolyn today, and I'm in a unique position to make that statement and comparision.
The ultra high standard and consistency of the advanced scientific formulation, provable potency and affordable price tag of Kre-Anabolyn wins the day, hands down.