Macronutrition vs. Nutrition Timing?

[5.0stang]

Hi guys/gals,

It seems to me that the new catch phrase is "it doesn't matter when you eat your macros (carbs, protein, fat), just as long as it is by the end of the day". I see problems with downing 2000-3000 calories in one sitting to get your marcros in, rather than balancing them.

The other catch phrase is "nutrition timing" doesn't matter, which I strongly disagree with.

Many of you guys know which forum these kind of comments are posted.

I have logical problems with both of these comments. Even just a few days into the Blueprint, I have seen the importance of nutritional timing and a well balanced diet throughout the day seems to be more efficient, atleast for digestive purposes I would think.

Is there any good research out there (+ matter2003, brainsquirt, Rob, and other's opinions) on the matter that can help substantiate a balanced diet and nutrition timing.

Thanks!

[DaCookie]

The reason the blueprint drink is so sucessful its almost solely because of nutrient timing.I hate the broscience 'post workout anabolic window'...sorry but that window starts as soon as youve done your sets for each excercise and you are seriously throwing away gains for no reason if your doing it this way compared to sipping a drink pre, intra, post.

Anyway, I balance my macros but someday I may try the warrior diet, because that is an excellent nutrition timing diet method

[beefcake66]

There's actually a ton of studies done on meal timing/frequency, proving that it doesn't matter. Pre-Intra-Post workout drink is the only thing I can personally see as potentially being beneficial nutrient timing, based on my own opinion and evidence found here with BP users. Otherwise, I do believe it doesn't matter if you have 6 meals or 1 meal.

In that other forum, in the advanced nutrition section, you can find the studies.

Warrior diet and intermittent fasting are awesome approaches if they work for you. If you like your 6/X meals a day then that works too. The meal frequency/timing is 100% personal choice.

[5.0stang]

It appears to me that the body would react differently if you crammed in 3000 calories at 6AM or even at 10PM at night, rather than balancing out 500 calories over the day.

It appears to me that digestion would play a factor in getting nutrients in an effective manner, energy for the day, and keeping storage and other levels elevated if you just binge in one sit down meal.

There is a particular protein digestion article by AA, that has some serious bias built into it.

My challenge for those the believe in strickly "getting your macros by the end of the day" (by the way, when is that? )or that all your protein quantity at one time does not matter, truely investigate the article you read that has footnotes to it. In other words, look at the footnoted research papers and see how the article actually differs from the research cited. You may be surprised how context have been twisted.

[BrainSquirt]

5.0stang,

Nutrition and nutrition timing is significantly more individualized than the food, supplement, and bb industries consensus paradigms would suggest. So, in this area, I personally have a quickly decreasing utility for ‘studies’ and am focusing more and more on finding ways to measure/test and fine tune what works for me individually. I’m also aware that some bodies simply have more latitude in how they are treated than do others. While some can go by the guidelines loosely and still get optimum results (and I’m assuming the high end is what we’re talking about here), others need to be constantly testing and adjusting, etc. to run near optimum. For example, a beefcake may be able to do just fine with “ The meal frequency/timing is 100% personal choice.” but the very next guy’s “personal choice”s, habits, pre-existing nutritional imbalances, cravings, etc. may actually keep him from finding his flow and staying in flow with nutrition.

Currently I have many more questions than I do answers. So, I’m on a quest to keep testing and tweaking until I find the best intraday practices for my individual body. It’s not the answer any of us would prefer, but doing just that is my only suggestion right now. With general macro nutrient intraday timing (and increasingly micronutrient timing), I personally get superb results from loosely applying the principles of chronobiotics… but that provides little guidance when trying to weave BP cycles, etc , the best sizing and timing of microfasts (warrior, eatfasteat, etc) protocols, etc. for me into the mix with workouts for best long term results.

I’m fine with the peri and intra workout nutrition (think “Formula”, etc) guidance herein. It’s the timing and sizing of meals away from wkouts that’s got me puzzled. For a while now, when I have read threads like https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/phpB ... php?t=1487
it has been so tempting to ask others what works. I'm open to tips and and suggestions but it looks like 'what works' is choosing a much lonelier road …

All the best

[5.0stang]

BrainSquirt - I am 100% with you. Funny, we all talk how each individual is different, and yet I bet only 1% of us actually believe this deep down, even though 99% of the people will preach it and follow the norm.

I do want to stress, I think macronutrition is in advance of nutrient timing, but those that dismiss the positive effects of nutrient timing are giving up a (my opinion) significant advantage, both in the short and long run.

The more I started diving into the "articles" and "research" over at the other forum I found some issues, in how the findings were portrayed.

[Rizzo23601]

BUMP

Would like to hear Rob's opinion on the matter. I mean, I've read so many things on the blueprint and in this forum, about carbs, intra workout, insulin, etc... It seems that nutrient timing DOES matter for optimizing results.

Additional question: "if it fits your macros" = Doesnt matter whether you get 100g of carbs from rice or from glucose, as long as it fits your macros. That cant be true right?

[biscuits]

I agree with beefcake in saying the only thing that really matter alot is pre-intra-post workout in regards to meal timing

I also read an article a long time ago about how people who ate 6+ meals a day developed insulin resistance from spiking their insulin and blood sugars repeatedly throughout the day. Not sure how accurate or credible but heres the link.

https://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... way_to_eat

[5.0stang]

I agree with beefcake in saying the only thing that really matter alot is pre-intra-post workout in regards to meal timing

I also read an article a long time ago about how people who ate 6+ meals a day developed insulin resistance from spiking their insulin and blood sugars repeatedly throughout the day. Not sure how accurate or credible but heres the link.

https://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... way_to_eat

So do you believe that eating 3,000 calories in one sitting, then taking your intra-workout shake reacts the same way as eating 3,000 calories over the course of the day (4-6 meals) and having your intra-workout shake?

To me, eating all your "macros" at once would seem to change:

- Metabolism (think putting "logs on a fire")
- Digestion efficiency
- Absorption efficiency of nutrients

After reading some articles by Alan Aragon on nolinksplease.com, then checking into the research papers he cited, they don't all seem to match up to what he puts in the article. I'm not saying it was done intentionally, but many people read the article and see a "cite" and assume it is correct. Then the bandwagon begins where they believe that is all that matters...just my opinion of course.

I think:

Proper macro nutrition + micro nutrition + intra-workout nutrition + intensity + The BluePrint = A great day in the weight room, day in and day out.

[5.0stang]

I agree with beefcake in saying the only thing that really matter alot is pre-intra-post workout in regards to meal timing

I also read an article a long time ago about how people who ate 6+ meals a day developed insulin resistance from spiking their insulin and blood sugars repeatedly throughout the day. Not sure how accurate or credible but heres the link.

https://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... way_to_eat

This is a good example of an article that is presumed to be straight forward.

When you dive into the details of the article, it actually says, "peak glucose leves were higher" with his proposed 3 meals a day study. They just pulled the "under the curve" card. It also said in the same article that he posted:

"The 6 meals of high-protein day resulted in both a lower blood glucose response and a lower insulin response compared to the 6 high-CHO day."

Meaning, they were comparing different scenarios and he just pulled out what backed up his claim.

Even with that article, he is just saying cut back to 3 or 4 meals a day, but I'm talking about eating all of your macros in one sitting which is alluded to over on the "other" forum.

You have to REALLY watch articles and how little things can get twisted in big ways, then take off like a race horse!

[matter2003]

I agree with beefcake in saying the only thing that really matter alot is pre-intra-post workout in regards to meal timing

I also read an article a long time ago about how people who ate 6+ meals a day developed insulin resistance from spiking their insulin and blood sugars repeatedly throughout the day. Not sure how accurate or credible but heres the link.

https://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... way_to_eat

John Romaniello talks about this as well, and to a lesser extent so does Ben Pakulski, talking about carbs are only eaten in a 4 hour period around your workout each day(carb meal 2 hours before and most of carbs post workout). The rest of the day is protein only or protein/fat to avoid spiking insulin...

IMHO, eating 6 times a day is a great way to have problems dropping body fat if you are an endo...especially if you eat carbs/fat together...

[biscuits]

Yea I was kinda suspicious about the link since he advertised a product in the last half of the article. But 5.0 what I failed to mention is that sure when taken to the extreme 1 meal a day would effect nutrient asorption and digestion, just like how eating 14 meals a day wouldn't exactly be ideal either. Sure eating different ways will yield different results. But What I was trying to say is I don't think it will make a HUGE difference anywhere from 2-5 meals

Since I have a large amount of free time (no obligations really )

I personally follow the adage: If you're hungry, eat. If not, don't

[5.0stang]

I personally follow the adage: If you're hungry, eat. If not, don't

2-5 meals - I agree with that.

I also agree, only eat when you have had a successful hunt!

[RobRegish]

BUMP

Would like to hear Rob's opinion on the matter. I mean, I've read so many things on the blueprint and in this forum, about carbs, intra workout, insulin, etc... It seems that nutrient timing DOES matter for optimizing results.

Additional question: "if it fits your macros" = Doesnt matter whether you get 100g of carbs from rice or from glucose, as long as it fits your macros. That cant be true right?

Nutrient timing is EVERYTHING, IMO.

You can have the PERFECT macro's, yet if you don't get them WHERE and WHEN you need them - you're selling yourself WAY short.

Look at Synthagen's ProtogeneX EAA's. You get them pre-workout, the research show's a 600% increase in protein synthesis, vs. 400% post.


Perfect illustration of how important TIMING is not just insofar as nutrition - but in life. Daisy Fuentes missed a phone call I put into her, asking her out on a date.

I'm not about to leave a message, either. Too bad for her - she wasn't there, when opportunity was knocking!....